This story was first published by AfroLA, nonprofit solutions journalism for Los Angeles told through the lens of the Black community. To also reproduce or republish this article, please contact AfroLA.
by Shady Grove Oliver, AfroLA
At any given time, up to 30% of firefighters working in California are incarcerated. These crews have been on the front lines of the multiple wildfires that have burned across L.A. County since the start of 2025.
Although they work for little pay and often use outdated equipment, many incarcerated people who are given the option to do so choose to join a conservation or “fire” camp because of better everyday living conditions, looser visitation restrictions and sometimes, reduced sentences.
But despite their often years of experience fighting fires, these same folks face barriers to employment once they are released from prison. They have a record, which many employers use as a reason not to hire them, and often lack some of the life skills they need to find work.
Originally from Southern California, Royal Ramey was an incarcerated firefighter for many years. He began serving his time in California before being told he would be transferred to Mississippi. Joining a fire camp was a way for him to return home and be near family while finishing his sentence.
When Ramey was released, he and his good friend Brandon Smith founded the Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program, or FFRP, which aims to help other formerly incarcerated firefighters find a path to stable employment upon their release.
AfroLA’s Shady Grove Oliver spoke with Ramey about his life and work. This is a section of that interview.
Oliver: When you found out you were going to be transferred to Mississippi and moved away from California, what was going through your head at that time?
Ramey: I was kind of shocked. I never thought that I would be going to a different state and serving my time – just knowing that I’m not going to be able to see my family because my mom wasn’t a person that has a lot of money and stuff like that. So, it was kind of a bummer, but I had no control over that. It was just something I just had to deal with. It really prepared me to understand the importance of the power of choice. My actions pretty much led me to having these folks take my freedom away from me. It was a reminder that I would never want this to ever happen again and I want to make sure I make better choices. I wanted to come home and do the right thing.
Oliver: When you had the opportunity to go to a fire camp instead, tell me about how you found out about it and why you thought that would be a good option for you.
Ramey: Every year, when you are incarcerated, you have your annual review. They evaluate your custody level and you get the opportunity to either get transferred, or go to a lower level or even a higher level depending on your behavior in prison. So, when I got offered the opportunity to go to fire camp, I honestly was like – fire camp, what? I knew I was going to go back to California, but I didn’t really know what it was.
Luckily, when I was in Mississippi, there were a lot more Black COs (corrections officers) there, so I asked, ‘Do I have to make a decision today?’ [The CO] was like ‘No, we can come back tomorrow or whenever, til you think about it.’
So, I ended up going back to my cell and I was starting to ask a couple other folks about fire camp. They said there’s better amenities there, you get better food, it’s dormitory living, you ain’t going to visit your family behind the glass – it’s a park-like setting. It just was a better living situation. They said they’ve got camps all throughout the state, so you probably can get really close to your mom.
I called my mom, actually, and let her know. She was like, ‘Boy, you better stop playing with me. You better hurry up and come back home.’ So, I made the decision to go and the rest was history.
Oliver: Tell me about the Bautista [Conservation] Camp [in Hemet, CA] and what your first impression of it was when you got there.
Ramey: It was just a different kind of setting from being in an urban community. I was definitely intrigued by it. It was miles and miles away from society. I was living in a cell for years, so it was definitely a great, refreshing feeling. I had to adjust a little bit. I kind of was at my bunk for the first couple of weeks, trying to feel some things out. But as time grew on, I just got accustomed to it and it started to be a part of my life at that time.
Oliver: Do you remember the first fire you fought? What was that like for you?
Ramey: It was a little fire out in Riverside County. We started cutting line. We was right there on the front lines. It was definitely hot. It was crazy – the adrenaline rush kicked in. After, I was like man, I can’t believe these dudes do this. That’s what I was thinking at the time. The more fires I went on, the more I started [to think] OK, this is pretty cool. The mentality is actually like me integrating myself mentally, emotionally, spiritually, believing in and feeling like I was a real wildland firefighter. I ended up falling in love with it and wanted to pursue it as a career.
Oliver: Is there something you do before you go out to fight fires? I know I’ve talked to some people who say a little prayer or they think about their mom or something like that. What do you do?
Ramey: So, there’s 10 [Firefighting Orders] that we teach our firefighters. And it’s No. 6. It says: ‘Be alert. Keep calm. Think clearly. Act decisively.’ I say that before I start to engage and it just reminds me to focus and be ready, and be adaptable – all those positive things – and just being sharp, making sure my head is on a swivel, because I want to come home and I want to make sure everybody else is safe. Obviously, I believe in God, so I say a little quick prayer. But for the most part I just say ‘Be alert. Keep calm. Think clearly. Act decisively.’ and just get after it.
Oliver: When you got out and were looking for jobs, tell me about some of the things you faced that were making it hard to get hired.
Ramey: So, everybody kind of knows, right, the stigma around being formerly incarcerated. [But there are challenges with] just understanding the landscape of how to apply for the job. How do you have a resume? How do you interview? What [is] the information that you need to make sure that you can be able to successfully get the job?
When folks come home from prison, it’s a lot of things. Not just external things, but the internal things – stable housing, transportation, or the mental state – mentally are they ready to be a public servant? And being able to be committed to this. [Also, there’s] the challenges with their trauma that they dealt with in the past. It’s so many different barriers and things that we could talk about.
But for me, personally, it was the stigma – it was just like, how do I navigate the system? Where do I go to get these sorts of certifications? How do I communicate effectively with somebody that might have some type of bias just based off my record – just based off of what I look like? And how can I convince them that I deserve an opportunity for the job?
I was determined to figure it out. And once I did, that’s when I knew that the FFRP was going to be a big deal and a big thing moving forward – and me and my cofounder Brandon Smith were going to build it.
Oliver: What are your hopes for the people who go through FFRP and what would you like to see in their futures?
Ramey: To me, a good future is for them to be happy, to have all their hearts desire – for them to have a 25-30 year career in the space, where they have financial stability for their families and the folks that they support, and to see that their kids’ kids have an opportunity to get a great education to have the resources and tools to be successful in life. And I see that hopefully FFRP can provide that career for them. I see that hopefully their life is full of abundance and inspiration and motivation.
For the young folks that’s in these urban communities [I hope we] can be able to provide a different option [for] what success looks like for them. Because I feel like from where were at – me growing up – I always thought you had to be either an entertainer or you had to be in the streets to be successful. So, I just hope and pray that this can give these folks an outlet where they have something that they’re passionate about, they can feel purpose and value and they know that they’re being a real public servant and serving their community as firefighters.
Oliver: When you look back at the path that you’ve walked, what do you think about the journey that you’ve been on and the experiences you’ve had?
Ramey: It’s amazing. It’s crazy, you know. It’s wild. I’m so appreciative of all the experiences, the challenges, the struggles, the roller coaster that I’ve been on my whole life. I wouldn’t change nothing for the world. I know there are some things that I hopefully will disclose in a book someday – how challenging it was at times – but just knowing you have the ability to overcome those things. And you shouldn’t let certain circumstances dictate your future.
As long as you continue to want to grow to be able to elevate, I think it’s very important that you just continue to fight the good fight. It’s just amazing how when you’re really serious about a cause, and you’re really passionate about it and you’re not focused on the glitz and the glamour of it, one day you’ll get your kudos and your flowers.
But at the same time, it’s really about just being a community member. I’m a real true believer in [the idea that] the purpose of life is to serve. [If] everybody [was] doing their part for humanity and wanting to uplift people, to inspire people, to motivate people, to love people, to create great synergy for folks, just doing the best they can to be a good person, the world would be a better place.
I just want to be a light to people. I have done some things – I have made some poor choices when I was younger – so I just want to be able to lay on my deathbed one day and look in my family’s eyes and know that I actually tried my best to provide for them, to inspire them, to love on them. [It’s] the Ramey legacy, right? That’s my last name. I’ve tried my best to represent us in a positive light.
I know when it’s all said and done, I’ve helped out as many people as possible. I enjoyed my life. I enjoyed my family. I enjoyed my friends. And I know that I’m going to leave the earth in a better place because of the efforts and the choices that I’m making today.
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